John - Ballard, Bellevue 2006-14

Your Name

John

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Bellevue

What years were you involved / attending?

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

In 2006 my daughter graduated from high school and decided to attend Seattle Pacific University (a bad decision we would both agree, but that's a story for another time).  She had read "Body Piercing Saved My Life" and from it had heard about Mark Driscoll (the "cussing pastor") and Mars Hill.  We talked about it while I was driving her to Seattle and thought we should visit when we got there.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

During the time she was getting settled in at SPU we decided to visit Mars Hill Ballard.

What were your first impressions?

I was impressed—stunned might be a better word—by the number of people at the church who were under the age of 30, and especially that there were young men there.  This was in sharp contrast to our home church at the time which, despite being in a large college town, had very few younger people attending.  I was also impressed by Mark's preaching.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Since I attended only sporadically when I was visiting Seattle, Mars Hill  was my "church home" in the sense that I listened regularly to Mark's messages and gave financially to Mars Hill—quite generously, as it turned out, although I didn't know it at the time.  We were, as a family fully invested in the church as much as we could be given we live over a thousand miles from Seattle.

We did what we did because we believed in the what the church was trying to do:  reach young men with the gospel, teach sound theology, and grow families.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Mars Hill, and Mark specifically, kept me involved in the church. At the time I first learned about Mars Hill and Mark I was in a very dark time personally. I had been serving and worshipping in a local church, but I had not found a “tribe” where I felt I belonged. I was convinced (and still believe) that such a tribe didn’t (and doesn’t) exist locally, but Mars Hill seemed to be the kind of place where I could find such a group. While I was in no position to uproot myself and my wife and move to Seattle, I had the hope that someday I would be able to participate in Mars Hill. I had planned to spend my retirement hanging around the church picking up trash, cleaning toilets, and setting out chairs.
It also got me interested in theology in a way that I had not experienced before. Mark had (and I believe still has) a gift for illuminating scripture I had not seen before, and I fell in love with his expository preaching and going through complete books of the Bible (which doesn’t allow skipping over the hard parts). Since then I’ve sought out other great preachers and teachers such as Tim Keller, John Piper, and DA Carson, but as good as they are they can’t quite replace Mark.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Ironically, the thing that bothered me the most was their legalism.  Ironic because Mars Hill preached—correctly, in most areas—freedom in Christ, but practiced a strict extra-Biblical legalism centered around the relationships between men and women.  Two examples might be illustrative.

The first involves a young man who was exactly the kind of man Mars Hill wanted men to be:  dedicated to following Jesus, hard-working (with a career, not just a "job"), kind and generous, and ready to settle down and start a family.  But whenever he would approach any of the women in the church he had to run a gauntlet of questions like, "What are your intentions with this lady?"  He confided in me that he would get this line of questioning after doing something as innocuous as having a cup of coffee together Starbucks.  His response was to shy away from pursuing any relationship with women in the church and look elsewhere for a potential mates.

The second involves a young woman who had moved away from the church because of the pain of "Christians" condemning her because of what she wore (mostly black clothing, required by her job), her job (working in the fashion industry), her tattoos and piercings, and other open-handed issues.  Deciding to give Jesus another chance, she moved to Seattle to attend Mars Hill.  One Sunday shortly afterwards was serving as a greeter (at the invitation of her small group leader) when she was approached by another woman who told her, "Your leggings are causing the married men to stumble".  There are so many things wrong with this, starting with not taking the time to learn how many people had hoped and prayed for her to get her back into Christian fellowship.  Fortunately, her small group leader came to her rescue and supported her and she was able to take it in stride.  (Her partner in greeting was wearing Daisy Dukes and was not taken to task for her dress.)

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mark.

The other things were peripheral outgrowths of Mark's inability to recognize his weaknesses and allow God to change him.  If that had happened many of the other things wouldn't have happened or would have been dealt with more constructively.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I stayed with Mars Hill to the very end, hoping that some good would come from everything.  But there was so much chaos in my personal life at that time that it was just one other painful thing to be endured.  During the time Mars Hill was coming apart, my father-in-law passed away and my children were present when a good friend took his life leaving behind wife and young son.  The kids, who were at Mars Hill at that time, could have used support from the church, but as things were falling apart the church couldn't effectively help them.  It was a horrible mess.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

From my perspective, there were two problems:  immature elder leadership and Mark's unwillingness to follow sound advice.

I used to find it amusing with some 25-year old kid who has been a Christian for all of three years is an "elder" in the church.  Having seen the damage that they can do I no longer find it amusing.

I understand that younger people can have more energy and have fresh ideas that the church needs, but often that enthusiasm can, if not guided by wisdom, lead the church to do great harm.  Wisdom is not something that can be gained just by a class or earning a degree in theology or by reading scripture.  Wisdom comes from experience (and experience from making un-wise choices).  As the catchphrase from the Farmer's Insurance advertisements currently running on TV say, "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two".

I've been a Christian now for 44 years and over that time I've seen people do some really stupid things.  I've seen Christians do some really stupid things in the name of Christ.  I've seen people do things that didn't appear to be stupid at first but that were in the end.  Some of these things were at Mars Hill, and when they were happening I knew that this would not end well.  I'm not the most mature nor the wisest person, and I would make a terrible elder, but there are men who could have served Mars Hill as elder leadership and kept the church from hurling itself on the rocks.

However, even if Mars Hill had had an elder board composed of wise, older, mature Christians, Mark, by his own admission, would not have listened to them.  Mark had sh*t that he needed to deal with but didn't.  I don't know Mark's heart and where he is now, but I pray that he has or will deal with his sh*t.

All of this is unfortunate because if these things had been done we wouldn't be where we are now.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I find myself in the same place I was 10 years ago—wondering where I fit in the church... or if I fit at all.  I have books and podcasts to feed the intellectual side my soul but I've pretty much given up on finding a tribe or a meaningful place to serve.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.


Oh, what could have been.

A.W. - Ballard, Shoreline 2002-06

Your Name

A.W.

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Shoreline

What years were you involved / attending?

2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

I actually found MH on Yelp.  I was looking for a church in the Seattle area and discovered it online.  

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I attended alone as a new/non-Christian.  I had decided it was time to make some changes in my life, and I had a hard time believing that we are just inconsequential beings with no purpose and no destiny.  I had a lot of questions about who I was.  I remember being in the small Ballard church and really taking in the sermons and the revelations about Jesus.  

What were your first impressions?

I immediately knew I had heard the truth when the gospel had been preached at MH.  I became a regular attendee and looked forward to Sunday when I could hear Mark preach.  Overall, the smaller building was welcoming and friendly at first.  I had initially requested to speak with a pastor.  I was naive and thought it would be great to sit down with a pastor and talk about how the gospel had changed me and how I felt about it.  I guess I was hoping to be welcomed into the church, but what resulted was a meeting with a pastor where I walked away feeling awkward.  I think the pastor was typically only meeting with people with huge life issues or something, and I wasn't there to discuss that.  So, I think I was expecting one thing and he was expecting something else.  It ended up leaving me feeling a little disappointed and uncomfortable.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I loved Mark's preaching style and the church in general immediately appealed to me.  I was excited at the number of congregants from all age groups and backgrounds and I wanted to be a part of that community and to grow in Christ.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Mars Hill was the first place I heard the gospel preached.  I learned about Jesus, and why I desperately needed him.  I felt I had finally discovered the truth and wanted to live by it.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Well, this is a long story so please bear with me.  I met my husband on a Yahoo dating site.  He was a non-Christian and I had just started attending Mars Hill.  I encouraged him to come with me to church, and we both began attending regularly, before and after we got married.  

I was a very lonely person.  I had little family to speak of and my mother and I had a very abusive relationship.  I had been emotionally and physically abused my entire life at the hands of my mother.  My father was never in my life.  I really wanted a family, a husband, and children, and I wanted security.  I didn't have it in my life and I desperately wanted it.  So, I can honestly say I wasn't very discerning about relationships with men in general.  When I met my soon-to-be husband, there were immediately HUGE red flags, but I pretended they didn't exist so I could get what I thought I wanted.  I am extremely sorry for that decision.  

My husband was an alcoholic.  I didn't realize the extent of it until after we were married and we started living together.  He was so drunk by 6 PM that he would oftentimes not even know where he was.  He would urinate on the floor and verbally abuse me.  Then he started physically abusing me.  Again, I was naive and very unwise in the way I conducted myself.  I tried to argue with him when he was drunk, and would raise my voice at him.  That instigated him physically assaulting me.  I'm not saying it's my fault, but I definitely made my fair share of mistakes too.  

As time went on, things escalated.  I was hit, punched, kicked, slapped, had my hair pulled, and physically tackled (like a football player) to the floor or against the wall.  One evening, "THE" evening that changed everything, we had an argument over a project we were working on.  He was drunk and I poked him on the nose saying "You need to treat me with more respect!".  At that point, he followed me into the kitchen and tackled me up against the kitchen cabinets.  He began choking me by placing his elbow into my throat (where I had recently had surgery to remove my thyroid) and pressing so that I could not breathe. I panicked and managed to fight him off of me.  Afraid he would attack me again, I picked up a knife on the counter and told him to stay away while I called the police.  When the police arrived I was arrested because I had ripped his shirt while fighting him off.  I actually couldn't believe it.  I remember sitting in jail thinking that the pastors of MH would help me.  If I could just get ahold of someone to help me.  I filed for a restraining order and he was removed from our home.  While the police were outside, he was allowed to retrieve personal items from the home.  What he did instead was take my glasses, my wedding ring, my make up, pour 2 liter bottles of soda on my clothes and on the bed, steal my hard drive, destroy my jewelry, turned off the water at the main, and set up a small space heater in the garage, surrounded by flammable materials.  I believe he was trying to burn the house down.

After that, he began contacting basically everyone we knew in common.  People from the church, my family, his family, our friends.  He called my mom and told her I was a lesbian and screamed at her "This is WAR!".  He told the church members that I had cheated on him and God only knows what else.  It was the hardest part of this separation, the lies, the deception, the revenge.  I reached out to MH pastors when I decided to file for divorce.  My husband was not showing any signs of repentance, mainly by being dishonest about what happened, about his drinking problem, lying to people about me, having my cell phone disconnected, cleaning out our bank account, falsifying documents to steal money from a trust we had set up, lying in court, oh... and trying to kill me.  That was a big one.

The pastors immediately began pushing me to reconcile with him.  But there was no way that was going to happen.  I knew I had to get away.  I was pressured daily with phone calls and emails.  I was asked to get a physical examination and have the results sent to the church, which I was not going to do.  I was put on church discipline, and shunned.

People in the church who I thought were my friends never called.  Either they believed my husband's lies or they believed I should reconcile and that I was sinning by not doing so.  Nobody called to see how I was.  Nobody stopped by.  It seemed nobody cared.  I was really devastated by that.  How could I fight this?  How could I disprove all the lies without turning into a he-said she-said scenario.  I tried contacting several friends who my husband had previously contacted.  They wouldn't talk to me and they would not hear my side of things.  So I remained silent for years about what really happened.

So, Today, almost 10 years later, I'm here to say that I survived.  Those people and pastors at MH hurt me badly.  I spent years in a deep depression and contemplated suicide until the Lord helped me to forgive everyone.  I forgave my husband, the church, it's members, and the pastors.  Forgiving is really what saved me.  Jesus saved me through His truth and light.  While what Mark did to some pastors at MH was not right, we are all guilty of hurting others, and what we must do is forgive, even if you feel he does not deserve it.  And we must trust God.  "Vengeance is mine" says the Lord God.  So let the Lord have his vengeance and trust that He will work things out with His justice.  

I have many emails or correspondence with MH pastors, the elders, etc., that I have saved and would be happy to share those with anybody interested, including the contract stating that I was to get a physical examination and allow my doctor to share it with the church.  I am not interested in naming names or pointing fingers, but my story is the truth.  I was wronged and mistreated. And maybe now it's time for me to share my story.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I think that what was missing at MH was genuine love for each other.  I think people today have forgotten how to really love one another.  People don’t know how to be a friend, how to be a parent, how to be a relative, how to be a good neighbor, and to REALLY love someone.  

Loving someone means that you can disapprove of their sin but still love their soul.  Loving someone means that you put on Jesus’ glasses and attempt to view humanity the way that HE sees humanity.  People are broken, and what mends them together is the love of Christ that should radiate through His people.  For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son.  Without love, Christ would never have been crucified and salvation would be lost.

But honestly, MH failed at loving.  I’m not great at it either.  I have been hurt in a way that makes it very difficult to get close to anyone because I fear hurt and disappointment. But we ought to remember that because Jesus LOVED us that He brought grace and hope and reconciliation to us.

In John 13:35 Jesus said,
“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

In 1 John 4:17 it states, “7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I was basically shut out, shunned, and shut down.  I had to leave because I was not willing to be treated that way.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

I think it was sad, but it was something that had to happen.  Certain sins had to be brought to light, and I think Mark is a smart man but he has some serious character flaws that need to be worked out.  I feel that he should not be in ministry at this time, I don't think real change and repentance of sin comes from brute force and authoritarianism but through love and relationship.  I don't think he's quite figured that out yet.  Love is what changes and restores, not pressure, vilification and shunning.  When Christ died for our sins he said "It is finished!", not "We'll have to wait and see what the pastors of MH think".  

What MH did to me, and many others, was wrong, and my heart aches for anyone else who went through that kind of treatment at MH.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I have grown to mature in Christ.  I'm such a different person now.  I think that what happened to me, Jesus took and turned it into good.  I have become more gentle, loving, kind, slow to anger, slow to speak, more contemplative, and forgiving.   That in itself is a miracle.  A pastor at MH told me that if I didn't reconcile with my husband, I would become "a Bitter, angry woman".  But I'm not.  Praise God.   I still love Jesus dearly, that will never change.  I am sorry that the family of MH was destroyed.  But look how easy pride and anger and hostility can ruin a beautiful thing.  I encourage everyone to LOVE each other.  It's not easy to do at times, but everyone is a sinner, everyone falls short, and LOVE is the restorer.  

Please write anything else you'd like to add.


Thank you for sharing my story.

Rick - Orange County 2012-14

Your Name

Rick

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Orange County / Huntington Beach

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

In 2011 my old church was going through a rough season, factions were fighting, and my dad found a sermon of this guy guest preaching at John Piper's church. This sermon was fiery, captivating, and frankly the best sermon I had ever heard. From then I began to podcast Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I moved to SoCal for college, when I heard there was a Mars Hill in Orange County I immediately started attending and got plugged in.

What were your first impressions?

I loved it, there have only been a few churches where I walked in and immediately felt like I belonged. I'm not cool or a hipster, but the atmosphere was awesome and I fell in love with the people of Mars Hill.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because God made my community group my spiritual family. Because in community I finally understood grace and freedom in Christ. Because I believed God called me there.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I learned how impactful missional communities can be in a church. I learned how to take ownership of my church by serving. I learned that there are good and innovative ways to do church besides what I grew up with.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

How Christianity failed me, how it failed Mars Hill. I believe all churches have shit, and all churches need to work through their shit when called out. What Christianity did was point to and yell about the shit they saw and condemned us. There were problems, and people only saw problems.
I am frankly bitter to this day towards Matt Chandler and Acts 29  because of how he handled his rebuke of Driscoll. Matt Chandler in his attempt to rebuke Driscoll gave the fuel to destroy Mars Hill. He "excommunicated" the whole church. His actions empowered the unloving critics and lead people like me to despair. He hurt me, he robbed me of my church family.
Chandler is not alone, in my view 90% of Christians condemned and rejected Mars Hill, Driscoll, and therefore me. There was little to no grace.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

1. Leadership structure.
I believe that the structure was put in place with good intentions. I think that as the church grew and leaders become more separated in distance and relationship decisions were slower and less united. Thus, centralizing leadership in the executive elders was meant to keep the church on mission, on task, and keep advancing the gospel.
This was a mistake. Centralized authority robbed the local elders of their ability to lead well, especially at Orange County. Centralized authority caused issues to never be fully addressed. Centralized authority caused distance between our leaders and the people of Mars Hill.
Authority should have been equal among elders. If size and distance made this a problem, maybe that meant we were too big or separated to be one church.
2. Women in leadership.
I believe women should be free and empowered to lead as God calls them. I am a complementarian who doesn't believe in female eldership or pastorship. But other than that, women are free to serve and lead throughout the church. Mark from the beginning emphasized men, which was refreshing to me, but this emphasis lead to women not being in significant leadership.
This impacted the culture in negative ways.
3. Share the pulpit.
Mark preached most of the time, but I think he should have shared the pulpit with other Mars Hill pastors on a regular basis. I think at least once a month. Guest preachers were great, but we needed to be taught and led by our local elders.
4. Less traveling for Driscoll.
At times it felt like we were facilitating Driscoll's Christian Rockstar status, rather than being served by him. Teaching is serving, but it felt like the people were incidental. I think he should and could have spent more time with the people of Mars Hill. Maybe that would have made him aware of issued before they became scandals.
5. Don't plant campuses out of state, plant churches.
I think the multi-site church concept is a great idea in a city or close region, like Seattle and the Puget Sound. But frankly, I never felt like I was in the same church as Everett or Bellevue. Mars Hill Orange County was not a part of the 'one church many locations'. We were a controlled church in the Mars Hill church network. They should have planted an independent church rather than have 1,000 miles between us and our "church family."
6. Less or no video teaching.
Let others preach, collaborate with the elders and let them preach.

Which describes you?

I stayed at Mars Hill through closure.

Please describe why you stayed at Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

Dustin Kensrue's letter was strong and resonated with me. One thing he wrote was to set a date to expect change, and if no change came, than you should consider leaving. This was in August 2014 for me. I prayed about it, and the Lord told me to see through the end of the year. As it turned out, that was how much longer the church had. Thus, I remained until the end.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

We were a church that grew aggressively, had problems, and were neck deep in controversy. For a long time we were led by the elders at the top of the food chain, and they made mistakes. When Driscoll stepped down and all the elders were allowed to make a decision they decided to separate into our own local church bodies to decide our future from there.
My location, Mars Hill OC, decided to close down rather than try to keep going. We had lost so many people, and our leaders were burned out.
So yes, Mars Hill is gone. But now there are many churches born from Mars Hill that still worship and proclaim Jesus. And that is a comforting thought.  

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

I was angry with my local elders for closing down Mars Hill OC for a while. But I've come to understand and move towards forgiveness in that.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I still miss Mars Hill. It was an amazing community to be a part of. I wish we could have worked through our shit rather than walking away from it. I learned a lot and grew a lot in my time there. I have no regrets about being a member there until the end.

Sam - Ballard, Shoreline 2004-09

Your Name

Sam

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Shoreline

What years were you involved / attending?

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

A family that was very close friends with my family for most of my life was a large part of Mars Hill from almost the beginning of the church, and they invited us to join. They were soon kicked out of the church because of the father's disagreement with Pastor Mark's leadership, but my family stayed, until almost the end of the church.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

The family that we were very close to invited my family to come. We came, and my parents were uncertain whether they wanted to stay or not, because they didn't like how big of a church it was. My dad was an elder in the last church we went to, and he and my mom wanted to leave because they weren't happy with the way the pastor was handling the church's money (how ironic).  They ended up deciding to stay, because they liked Pastor Mark's sermons

What were your first impressions?

I was a teenager, and Mars Hill was just so much more exciting than the churches I had attended before. The music especially was great, considering how I always hated Christian rock. Here was creative, enjoyable music that was also Christian without being boring. That, and there were a lot of young, cool people to get to know

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I was a teenager at the time, and I was also homeschooled, so it was at church that I made the most friends my age. I was very active in the youth group, "Proxy." Even after I "graduated" from Proxy, I volunteered occasionally as a youth leader.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I was at Mars Hill during my formative years, so it's hard to discern what was good and what was bad. I'll say this: I've had the best bible study groups in Proxy than anywhere else in my life. We would tackle really difficult theological issues, like the problem is evil, and the nature of God; things that we clearly had no answer to, but we enjoyed discussing none the less.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I had a lot of ideas implanted in my head, since I was so young, that I really disagree with now. For example, gender roles: the idea that women shouldn't be leaders, men must be the head of the household, and the patriarch is extremely important; that homosexuality is evil; that anything sexual outside of marriage is sinful and should be fiercely monitored; etc. The biggest thing of all though, is being told that I must always submit to authority, that I can make no decisions without the say-so of people older than me. That really broke me, when I found out that I disagreed with my elders; it was hard to not feel guilty for something I shouldn't have felt guilty for

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Almost everything that had to do with doctrine. If it was a large collective of people who loved Jesus, and loved people, and loved creative music and art, and formed close, constructive relationships with each other, without trying to form everyone into one church, believing in only one doctrine, being led by leaders that think the way one person tells them to think. Mark used to brag about how he wasn't the lead pastor of the church, how he "couldn't even get into the church by himself, because he didn't have the keys." Turns out it wasn't that way at all

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

At first, I left Mars Hill because I went to college out of town. At that time I grew intellectually, and found I disagreed with almost everything I was taught at Mars Hill. When I came home to Seattle, I found a lot of my closest friends from Mars Hill and Proxy felt the same way. Soon after that, I had a profound experience that made me realize that I was no longer a Christian, and it was the most freeing feeling in my life. I had originally thought I had found salvation and grace at Mars Hill, but I felt it more profoundly after leaving

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Well, it became a huge community of people who loved each other, and were connected under the belief of a loving Christ, and Mark Driscoll tried to control it for egotistical reasons and with manipulative actions, and it drove people against each other, until it all collapsed.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Not a Christian, and happy for it.