Dean Watkins - 2000-07

Your Name

Dean Watkins

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Lake City / Wedgewood

What years were you involved / attending?

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

I was working for an architect in Kirkland who I knew to be a Christian also.  I was new to town, so I asked my boss for church recommendations.  He gave me a short list, but sort of highlighted Mars Hill as being different, new, young.  He thought I might like it.  I went to one other church on Mercer Island, and the Pastor meet me and took me to lunch.  I was one of the few "twenty somethings" at his church.  That pastor told me that if he was my age...he would be going to Mars Hill.  So, I went to check it out.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

My first service was at the First Hill location.  I remember Mark yelling at the crowd...I don't remember what.  But he pointed at the door, and said something to the effect of "if you don't like it there's the door".  Strangely I was hooked.  I liked that someone was going to preach without a concern for what others thought.

What were your first impressions?

My first impression was that it was weird.  It was darker, and "moodier" than any other church I'd been to.  I wasn't sure if I'd fit in.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Mars Hill became my church home because they found a way to build a strong community.  In retrospect, not all bad.  But not all good.  It was a highly insulari environment.  There were lots of ways to connect with people mid-week, and it filled up much of my social world at that time.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

Mars Hill helped me to make friends when I moved to Seattle.  It gave me a place to worship, and it added a sense of community at that time.  There were some periods of growth as well.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

This is difficult.  In some ways even 8+ years later there are negative impacts.  The theology was so lacking of Grace that I still today have to question if my understand of God and Scripture is coming from a place of Love, and Grace...or if the "old voices" of performance and living up to some unattainable standard are speaking up again.  The black and white thinking on top of the lack of Grace was particularly damaging at the time.  And even though I don't think that way now...it feels like it took something from me in a vague way.  Living through that form of spiritual abuse is not quickly forgotten.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mark.  He needed to step aside and repent.  And it's shameful that he never (to my knowledge) seriously acknowledged all of the hurt and pain that was caused by the culture of bullying, and bravado that he created.  I guess it would be appropriate to say, adding Grace to the message.  And there are probably a long list of other things...including but not limited to not having changed the underlying church governance to allow for a better balance of power.  But Mark was responsible for much of those issues.  It was his ship to sink.  

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

My exit from Mars HIll happened when Bent and Paul were fired.  It was clear to me at that point (in I think about 2007) that there was a significant power issue.  It was tough to leave.  It was an environment that felt like, "you are with us, or against us".  Actually the other very weird thing that happened was that at the time that Bent and Paul got fired...everyone was asked to "renew" their membership.  This might not have been so weird except that I clearly remembered a big long monologue from one of the elders (probably Mark) about membership being like a "covenant".  So, if it's a covenant one day...it seemed weird that it required a renewal the next.  After talking to a friend about it, I decided that cancelling my membership was a clue, and I didn't want to be a member at a place where Mark could get rid of anyone who wasn't a "yes man".  

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

The tremendous ego of Mark Driscoll caused a culture of bullying, and the failure of most of the other elders to band together and call him out on it.  

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Since leaving Mars Hill I went to another church for about 5 years.  My immediate change was a sense of relief.  The "new church" (was actually much older in age than MH) reminded me of God's Grace in a way that was no longer present at MH.  At this point I am not attending church.  My new church would not allow me to be a member, once I accepted myself as gay.  To be clear, if I was "out" while I was at MH they would not have accepted me either.  My membership there was based on the idea that I wasn't going to date or marry anyone of the same sex.  At this point, I am a Christian, and I'm gay...and I no longer consider those things to be mutually exclusive.  This took a lot of studying and time (and prayer)...but my mental health has improved greatly and I'm sad about all the years I spent trying to fit someone else's mold (at MH) if I stop to think about it for too long.  But I also have a strong sense of who I am as a Believer now...and I'm more in a "progressive" camp...if I had to label it.  

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

I guess I would like to say that there were some years that were good.  At least it seemed that way at the time.  But it was so bizarre and disappointing to see so many people stay, and follow what I started calling the "party line".  My life, health, and faith has only healed and grown since leaving, and I hope the same for all the others that survived this weird experience.  I feel like I survived a cult experience.  I'm really glad that it blew up, and I hope that the others will find the same sort of peace in their lives apart from MH and it's culture.

Jessica - Ballard, Downtown Seattle, Portland, Tacoma 2009-13

Your Name

Jessica

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role)

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard, Downtown Seattle, Portland, Tacoma

What years were you involved / attending?

2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Through a friend who was a member.

What were your first impressions?

The very first service me and my (now ex) husband attended was in Ballard. Mark preached a sermon directed towards men and husbands. Mark screamed half the service, calling on men to step up and take responsibility and cursing at abusers and fornicators. Having come from a long series of churches with mostly female leadership because men were simply disinterested, this was actually refreshing to me. I appreciated the fact that men were not allowed to slide under the radar here, that they were called upon to step up and be leaders.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I had just moved back to Seattle from LA where I worked on staff at another megachurch that was centered on service and sensationalist spirituality. I had been very burnt after seeing pastors who were more business executives than anything else make horrific and unbiblical decisions behind closed doors. I was tired of hearing shallow, "encouraging" words every week and wanted to learn the scriptures in depth. If Mark is any one thing, he is thorough. I learned so much and soaked it up like a sponge.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The most positive part of my time at Mars Hill was it's people. The pastors of MH Portland, specifically. My husband and I had moved to Portland to help start MHPDX and we were leaders there. 6 months later he had fallen back into his old life of drugs, stealing, cheating, manipulation and abuse. One night, the pastors came and picked me up, gave me a place to stay and then went back to retrieve all my belongings. I lived in my pastor's guest room for a month and everything I owned was in the church garage. Not only that, but they helped me through my divorce. None of them told me to divorce him, but none of them stopped me from leaving that abusive relationship. They helped me move a total of 3 times in 5 months. I could not have made it during that time without their support and love.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Mark preached that men should take charge and be leaders, but he left a lot of room for men like my ex to twist it into control and abuse their wives.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I know that the Redemption program had helped a lot of people, but I believe that it was a dangerous place for those with unstable mental health due to trauma. Without the guidance of certified counselors, there was a lot of pressure to "tell all" and forgive when sometimes a great deal of time and counseling is needed. The Redemption program was like amateurs performing heart surgery. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Mars Hill didn't take things at a case-by-case basis, it was black or white, all or nothing. "You confess. You forgive. You heal." It's not always that straightforward or easy or even healthy to do things that way.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

Well, the short version is that I began working late on Saturday nights and didn't want to wake up early to go to church so I found one that had an evening service. However, if I really wanted to I would have made it happen. With everything that my Portland pastors helped me with, they never made me feel indebted to them. I sort of fizzled out. They would check in with me here and there, but never made me feel guilty for not coming anymore. In the end, I really craved a simpler, smaller church. And one that had a real pastor preaching in front of me, rather than someone phoned in on a screen.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Mark is a very extreme personality. He is over the top. He's human and interprets things the wrong way, shares his OPINION of the scriptures meanings. He was a part of something that got VERY big very fast and in this world of online media, he was severely attacked for his faults.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My beliefs are unchanged. Even while attending MH my beliefs had not changed much from my previous experience. I am, however, not as involved in a church as I was and probably never will be again. I love going to church, I believe it's important and I love being surrounded by other believers. But I no longer feel guilty for missing church. God's people are his church, it's not an organization. God can speak to me on my couch as much as he can in church. My foundation is in Jesus, it's no longer in what church I go to.

Regular Attender - West Seattle 2004-11

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

West Seattle

What years were you involved / attending?

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

A friend of mine in graduate school was new to Seattle and had been shopping for a church in the area to attend. She settled on Mars Hill and recommended it to me.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I was newly pregnant and my husband and I wanted a church to raise our family in. We were both raised in casually religious families but hadn't attended any church regularly since college.

What were your first impressions?

The church had recently opened the Ballard building and it was still mostly unfinished. It was huge, dark, and very trendy and modern inside.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

It was the first church we had attended in years, and it felt progressive and interesting at first, so we were interested enough to stick around. As the years went on we met many wonderful people and formed deep friendships within the congregation. We felt challenged to grow in our relationship with Jesus and were captivated by Mark's passion in the pulpit.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The relationships we built within the congregation, especially with those in our community group.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

The Song of Solomon and Real Marriage series nearly ruined our marriage. During SoS we were told that because we weren't having enough sex (according to the guidelines presented by Mark) and our sex life wasn't passionate and exciting enough (according to guidelines), we were in sin and not upholding biblical teachings on giving of our bodies to each other.

During RM we were bombarded by the book, the sermons, the community group video series and workbook, with the message being that our marriage was surely dysfunctional and both of us were to be confessing and repenting of our hidden sins. We were asked to do so in public during our CG, goaded on by our 24 year old CG leader. When we explained that we thought our marriage was functional and happy, and only had "minor" sins to confess to the group, we were labeled as being unwilling to allow Jesus into our lives.

It has taken years for us to recover from these accusations as well as from the damage they caused in our marriage. At the time we started to truly believe we were dysfunctional, because everyone said we were. We became suspicious of each other, wondering what the other was hiding that the rest of the church could surely see.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I wish that the church had presented a wider variety of sources for understanding the gospel, whether through more pastors within the church or through encouraging the congregation to see Mark as a human whose interpretation was not necessarily Truth.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left not long after the Real Marriage series, and after much prayer. As members, we were required to submit our separation from the church in writing and meet with our campus pastor. We lied about the reasons for our departure, saying we felt called to attend a church in our immediate neighborhood, because we were afraid of being accused of abandoning the church because we wanted to continue in our dysfunctional marriage. The campus pastor did not pressure us to stay, and wished us well at our new church.

The most painful part of leaving was wondering how our relationships within our CG would survive. I was afraid of losing the friends I left behind at MH and thought many would 'shun' me for daring to disagree with the church. In the end, only a few of those friendships were damaged at that time. Most remain strong even now. Some were strained further once MH disbanded and Mark was in the media for all his behavior.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

I felt that the church was no longer strengthening my relationship with Jesus the way it did when I first started attending. I felt that the church and the pastor had changed mission in a way I could no longer support.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

My husband and I are now attending a new church in a denomination that was condemned by Mark during several sermons. We again feel challenged to grow in our relationship with Jesus and in our understanding of the gospel, and are actively serving in both our church and in community programs in our neighborhood. We feel free.

Regular Attender - Albuquerque 2013

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Albuquerque

What years were you involved / attending?

2013

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

I think I read about it online.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I was at a temporary job assignment in Albuquerque and my wife and I needed I church to attend. I have spent my whole life in evangelical churches of some form (mostly Baptist) so I was pretty much right at home. The Calvinist aspect were the only things that were really new but they were typically pretty subtle.

What were your first impressions?

I loved it, the community was great, and the worship was heartfelt. The teleconference sermons took some getting used to but their quality made it worthwhile. It was like the apostle Paul could be at all the churches at once, why not take advantage of that?

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I needed a church home and this one was a great community. The community groups were excellent and formed my closest group of friends.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

The sermons really did have a grounding effect at a time when I felt somewhat uprooted. It was  the closest thing I had to a church home in years

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

I really don’t harbor any ill feeling.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

At the time, not a whole lot, maybe more in person sermons. Now, just about everything, but that’s a little complicated.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

It moved to another city, so it was as simple as that. I joined an Act 29 network church so I monitored the fallout closely while it was occurring.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

While I was attending Mars Hill, I told myself that this was about more than Mark Driscoll. That he was the leader of a church he started but that the organization was its own entity. Lots of CEOs leave or are forced out of the companies they start, right? But as the heat was turned up on pastor Mark, it became obvious that he had made a sufficient number personal mistakes to necessitate stepping down for a while. The open letter incident was where he really started losing my support, but when he announced his resignation and Mars Hill immediately declared its intent to disband, I realized I had been wrong. While God had a place, Mars Hill had been about Mark Driscoll all along and couldn’t hold itself together anymore.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

For reasons that really cannot be attributed to Mars Hill or Mark Driscoll, my wife and I have converted to Orthodox Christianity (through and OCA parish). I would never have become Roman Catholic (and still couldn’t) because I disagreed with so much of their theology, but Orthodox Christianity was like discovering the early church is still around. Now I reflect on Mars Hill as a lesson about the dangers of creating human institutions as part of an invisible church. Orthodox Christianity has had some enormous problems throughout its history (external persecution, internal greed, corruption etc.) but has weathered these storms because it’s not built on the back of a single individual (be he Pope, Pastor or Patriarch).

Member - Orange County 2012-14

Gender

Female

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Member

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Orange County / Huntington Beach

What years were you involved / attending?

2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

Husband listened to Driscoll's podcasts.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

Husband wanted to go hear the Real Marriage series and we were looking for a new church as newlyweds.

What were your first impressions?

Based on the podcasts, I didn't want to go.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

Because my husband wanted it to be and I couldn't put my finger on a concrete reason why we shouldn't go there.  I just had a bad feeling about it so I gave it a chance.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

We made a few "normal" friends.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

Everything else.  The teaching being black and white with no gray area left our marriage with what felt like no grace.  When I disagreed with Driscoll's interpretation of scripture my husband would say things like "are you even a Christian?  You just don't agree because you don't want to follow that part of the Bible."   Sitting and listening to that teaching every week, I felt like I didn't fit in and something was wrong with me.  I started feeling like crap and judged.  

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

Mark Driscoll out of leadership and the chauvinist attitude gone.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

We left Mars Hill because of the way leadership was treating people.  We didn't experience all the things folks in Seattle did but our last community group leaders treated us pretty badly.  With the last straw being the husband who refused to make eye contact with me when I would talk to him and who would only look at my husband in defiance of me speaking as a woman.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

They f***ed themselves with their bullshit.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

Different church, not trusting church, suspicious of people who are too black/white on beliefs, re-evaluating what I believe and what is actually true.

Steve Lewis 2010-14

Your Name

Steve Lewis

Gender

Male

Which describes your role at Mars Hill?

Regular Attender, Member, Group Leader (any leadership role), Staff

What Mars Hill location(s) did you attend?

Ballard

What years were you involved / attending?

2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

How did you first hear about Mars Hill?

I first heard about Mars Hill through the media, particularly surrounding the attention Pastor Mark was receiving around the Peasant Princess series.  Mars Hill came to my attention even more as I moved from Whidbey Island down to Seattle and several friends recommended it as a church to check out as I got settled in Seattle.

What was the circumstance of your first time attending Mars HIll?

I moved to Seattle in March of 2010, and the first Sunday I attended was Easter (April 4, 2010).

What were your first impressions?

I was blown away.  A lot of people, the church I was attending previously had at most 150 people on Christmas/Easter.  Loud music, solid preaching, friendly people.  I was definitely intrigued and planned to attend again.

Why was Mars Hill your church home?

I was brand new to Seattle when I started attending Mars Hill, and didn't know anybody in the city other than my brother.  The friends I made during my time at Mars Hill helped me transition much better to life in the new city.  I also have lived in Magnolia my whole time in Seattle, so the Ballard location was the easiest to get to.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a positive impact on you?

I truly became a Christian at Mars Hill.  Through Pastor Mark's teaching, I became totally aware of my need for Jesus and gave my life to him.  I had the opportunity to be a part of and lead several community groups, I was able to serve on and lead several teams on Sundays, had the opportunity to become an intern and to join the staff at Ballard, and was blessed by the many people I encountered during my time at Mars Hill.  I was able to go through Redemption Group, as well as attend ReTrain as I grew as a Christian and as a leader.

What about your time at Mars Hill has had a negative impact on you?

As great as my experience was at the church, I became very disillusioned to the church as I got more and more involved and saw the inner workings of the church.  I was encouraged to take part in the spin that was put forth by Central while I was on staff, even though I pushed back and questioned what was going on.  I saw many people hurt by the actions of the leadership at both Ballard and Central as we saw staff members transitioning out rapidly (some for amicable reasons, many were let go), questions being left unanswered, and being chewed up by the machine.  Ultimately, after I left staff, and seeing how many dear friends were treated by the leadership of the church, and more importantly, not experiencing Jesus, I made the decision to leave the church in 2014.

What would you like to have changed about Mars Hill?

I think the biggest thing I would have changed about the church was how much was kept behind closed doors.  I know that there is plenty of things that are discussed at any church that should not be brought forth to the entire congregation (counseling matters, Redemption group discussions, etc), but at Mars Hill most everything was kept secret.  People invested a lot in the church as it grew larger and larger, but they were kept in the dark about what was being done.  I feel that how it was handled at Mars Hill was very unloving and untruthful.

Which describes you?

I left Mars Hill prior to closure.

Please describe why you left Mars Hill and what that experience was like.

I made the decision to leave Mars Hill in September of 2014 after seeing how Pastor Mark Dunford was treated upon signing the Letter from the Nine.  This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, my departure had been building for a while after I left staff in March of 2014.  My concerns about the church had been growing, and I asked many questions about what was going on as the clouds were accumulating surrounding the church leadership.  I was heartbroken as I saw many leaders leaving Ballard in particular, men that I had grown to love as I served alongside of them; I was crushed to see so many people leaving the church, men and women that were instrumental in my own growth as a believer and a leader within the church.  Ultimately, I keep going back to the passage that God led me to at that time, Matthew 14:22-33, Jesus walking on the water and calling Peter out of the boat.  Peter stepped out onto the water, though he started to sink as he looked at the wind and rain and storm and took his eyes off of Jesus.  Once he looked back at Jesus and focused his attention on him, Peter was able to rise back up and get into the boat safely.  The storms of distraction were drawing my eyes away from Jesus towards the end of my time at Mars Hill, and I was not okay with this.  I needed to refocus my life on Jesus, and I felt that I needed to break away from Mars Hill to do this.  I met with Pastor Adam Christiansen the week before I made the decision to leave, and he and I prayed for this decision.  I let him (and Pastor Scott Harris, who was the lead pastor at Ballard at that time) know via a long and tear stained email that I had made the decision to leave.  I let them know that I would continue to pray for both of them (which I have, even to this day), for the church (which I have, through the split and reorganization as different local bodies), and for the people, wherever God has led them.  To be completely honest, this hurt.  A lot.  Mars Hill had made a huge impact on my life, and to come to the realization that it would no longer be a part of my life was devastating.  I was anxious to get my life re-centered on Jesus, and to do this change needed to happen.

How would you describe the reason for Mars Hill's closure to an outsider.

Wow, this is a deep question.  To do this, I would need to share my own story about what Jesus has done and is doing in my own life, and how Mars Hill played a part in this.  Depending on the context of the conversation, I would most likely give a bullet point explanation of what happened at the end of Mars Hill, and close the convo with an emphasis of how important a saving faith in Jesus really is, not only in our own lives but also in that of the church as a whole.

What's changed for you since your time at Mars Hill came to an end?

As I made the decision to leave Mars Hill, I really had to step back and reevaluate what I really believe as a Christian and what I was looking for in a church.  I knew that I needed to be surrounded by other believers to continue growing as a Christian and to heal, I couldn't do this without being a part of a church.  As I began the process of looking for another church, I found myself comparing every other church I attended to Mars Hill.  I was critical of the music, of the teaching, of the ministries.  I really had to rediscover who Jesus was and be open to him leading me to where he wanted me to be, to take my eyes off of the distractions that were blinding me.  Once I did this, I ended up finding a great church home where I am fed, challenged and loved.  I am a part of Quest Church now, ironically Quest's new home is in the same building where Mars Hill Ballard was located.  I am still healing, have had many opportunities to share my experience at Mars Hill, and am continually working on following Jesus.  My faith was definitely shaken by what happened at Mars, shaken but not broken.  Ultimately, my faith has become stronger because of my experience at Mars.  I have experienced many highs and lows during my time at Mars and after, but the one constant in this whole time has been Jesus.  I know it was a catchphrase/slogan at Mars, but it really is all about Jesus.  He is in the business of redeeming lives, my own is evidence of this.

Please write anything else you'd like to add.

Thank you for giving us this space to share our experience at Mars Hill.  I look forward to seeing other people's responses to this, to celebrate what Jesus is doing in people's lives.